CANTERBURY CATHEDRAL PROTEST 4TH DEC 2009

Host:	██████ NEWFATHERS4JUSTICE ( sussex ) ██████
Type:	Causes - Protest
Network:	Global

Date:	Friday, December 4, 2009
Time:	10:00am - 2:00pm

CANTERBURY CATHEDRAL PROTEST

4TH DEC 2009

THIS IS A HIGH PROFILE PROTEST BY THE INFAMOUS GROUP NEW FATHERS 4 JUSTICE .

THE GROUP WILL BE ATTENDING CANTERBURY CATHEDRAL FOR THE FIRST TIME IN THE "PUT THE FATHER BACK INTO CHRISTMAS PROTEST".

DRESSED IN SANTA OUTFITS, WE WILL YET AGAIN ATTEMPT TO GET OUR MESSAGE ACROSS TO THE CHURCH, WHOM LIKE THIS ARROGANT LABOUR GOVERNMENT HAVE IGNORED THE PLIGHT OF FATHERS FOR YEARS.

THE GROUP HAS DECIDED TO TAKE THERE CAMPAIGN BACK TO THE CHURCH AS THEY AND THEIR SYNOD HAVE NOT DEBATED FAMILY BREAKDOWN SINCE 1991 !

USUAL CLAD ! SANTA OUTFIT A PRIORITY , BANNERS , HORNS ETC....


WE WILL ALSO VISIT :

CAFCASS
Barton Mill Road
Canterbury
Kent CT1 1BP

family court/combined court,
chaucer rd,
Canterbury
ct1 1za

PLUS A NUMBER OF NASTY FAMILY COURT SOLICITORS.

WHILE WE'RE THERE !

PUT THE FATHER BACK
INTO CHRISTMAS !

New Fathers 4 Justice view the current stance of the Church of England with great dismay - the lack of leadership on an important matter of modern-day family life, divorce and protection of young children's rights to both parents and extended families.
For this reason we can not rule out direct action at religious services this Xmas. Dads are annoyed with the C of E and there has been much talk of this type of protest.
As priests, vicars, and Bishops they occupy possibly the most powerful seats of influence on how family life should be conducted. From high moral ground almost always they see their role as clergymen to lead their flock along a path to honesty and godliness yet,

The Synod has not debated family breakdown since 1991 !

Children need and deserve the love, nurturing, social skills and discipline that can only be provided from contact with both their mother and father, with help from their grandparents.

Fathers are also part of their flock who need their help please yet they fail to speak out about this problem that causes so much pain.

As shepherds of God's flock, I cannot think of any greater sin than to idle in ignorance to the needs of God's family while an unfair system of family law abounds blatantly under one's nose.

The flawed system allows children to be exposed to a succession of mums' fleeting boyfriends, lovers and stepfathers with whom they have no biological connection but gives no automatic right of access to their real dads or grandparents !
Children need contact with both a mother and a father and with extended families to provide the love, care, nurturing and discipline necessary for a happy childhood. We as dads and grandparents love our children and just wish to spend time with them but the present system breeds demoralisation in the home and workplace, compounded with further damage to even the sanest person's mental health.

The Church of England and it representatives must stop ignoring the consequences of family breakdown.

Parental Alienation on W5 - CTV Canada ~ Children on the frontlines of divorce

W5 investigates: Children on the frontlines of divorce W5 Staff Updated: Sat. Nov. 7 2009 6:58 PM ET The world of divorce is scary for any child. Even when spouses split amicably children can be forced to balance their love and time between two parents. But when a divorce becomes especially toxic children can become the target of an unrelenting crusade by one parent to destroy the child's relationship with the other. Experts call it parental alienation, a persistent campaign by one parent to poison a child's relationship with the other parent. Typical tactics include lying or making false allegations about the targeted parent, refusing to let the child see the other parent, even punishing the child for showing affection for the other parent. Experts claim, in its more extreme forms, it is child abuse. Pamela Richardson For almost 12 years, Pamela Richardson rarely saw her son Dash because of the campaign her ex-husband waged against her. According to Richardson, after her marriage dissolved her ex-husband, who had custody of the then-four-year-old, did everything he could to alienate Dash from his mother - fabricating illness, booking activities for Dash to prevent visits; he even arranged to have Richardson banned from Dash's school. "I wouldn't see Dash for, you know, a number of months and not without me trying, not without me doing all the classic things that alienated parents do -- cookies on the doorstop, faxes, phone calls, notes, trying to see him at friends' houses -- everything you possibly can to keep that thread of a relationship alive," said Richardson. Despite a court order giving her regular visits with Dash, Richardson said her ex-husband did everything he could to keep them apart and to convince their son that she was a bad and uncaring mother. "There was period of two years, and I added up the hours (with Dash) and it came to 24 - in two years," Richardson lamented. Richardson said she wasn't the only one suffering as a result of the alienation - Dash was suffering too. Alienated from his mother, the once happy little boy turned into an isolated, depressed and angry teenager. On January 1, 2001, Dash, then 16, jumped off Vancouver's Granville Street bridge, in the middle of the night, to his death. While Richardson blames her ex-husband, she also blames a court system that she insists did little to intervene and help. "This is extreme and this was something that was in the courts many, many times...they had an opportunity to do something and they didn't," said Richardson. Parental Alienation and the Courts Courts are paying more attention. Family court judges are increasingly considering issues of parental alienation in deciding custody. Justice Harvey Brownstone is a family court judge in Toronto and the author of a book on the bitter realities of divorce court. "Parents who are on a campaign to destroy the child's relationship with the other parent could lose custody and, in extreme cases, courts have changed custody to the other parent," said Brownstone. He encourages divorcing couples to focus on parenting together rather than using children as a tool of revenge, dragging them through protracted, bitter family feuds. "While there may be some therapeutic benefits to coming to court and venting and telling a judge how much you were hurt by the other parent's infidelities or bad conduct, at the end of the day, we are looking at parenting capacity, parenting skills," he said. "We need to look at how couples are going to reinvent themselves from ex-partners to co-parents." Co-parenting The concept of divorced parents co-parenting isn't new for psychologists Peggie Ward and Robin Deutsch. They bring bad-mouthing alienating parents, targeted parents, and their children to a camp in Vermont in an effort to help these broken families learn new ways to properly raise their children Eight-year-old Tori Cercone knows first hand how it feels to be caught in the middle of a high conflict divorce. "What is so painful is that your mom and dad get separated and they don't like each other but you like both. And it's kind of like a contest who you like better" Two years ago Tori's parents Fran Beecy and Chris Cercone couldn't stand to be in the same room after Beecy made abuse allegations against her ex-husband. "Oh my God, he hated me," said Beecy. "I was like the big mother bear guarding the door, not letting my ex-husband near my kids...I just wanted to protect them, to keep them safe. And yet he, on the other hand, was just like 'these are my kids, I want to see them. I have every right to see them.'" Divorce camp in Vermont changed everything. Today, they visit together, gather for family dinners, and get along. As Cercone explained, "whichever side you're on, whether you're the alienated or the alienator, you've got to come to grips that it can't be about how I feel or getting back at the other one." "I think I'm a better mom because I'm happier," said Beecy. "I'm not trying to create any wedges between my kids and their dad." Email W5 directly about this story

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20091106/w5_divorce_091107/20091107?hub=WFive

© 2009 All Rights Reserved.

Law Times Canada ~ Judge reverses parental alienation ruling

I have followed this case for some time and it has always amazed me how dysfunctional child disputes with this form of emotional abuse (PA) can get. I have also always been curious where this dad seems to get the money for counsel
if he is on welfare as has been reported in the media in the past?

I have no doubt Parental Alienation exists and I have observed its impact on the children and target parent first hand. I have also observed the clear gender bias of Family Courts in Canada when it comes to physical custody whereby mom gets it in over 90% of cases. Judges and indeed lawyers for men, based on anecdotal stories by these men, seem predisposed to ensuring maternal custody takes place and it is usually only a dad of means who can afford the "experts" to obtain even a remote chance of obtaining custody or shared parenting at the least. These men report they are advised by their counsel that judges don't award dads custody so take what you can get and save some money.

The arbitrator in this case seems to have gone overboard with the recommendation for attending Dr. Warshak's workshop without the good Doctor having even seen the boys. This gives him and the notion of Parental Alienation a bad name given the cost of attending for a week. It sounds like a good decision on the surface without knowing more details. It may sully Warshak's reputation without him even being officially involved.

Why don't the legal profession support changing the Divorce Act to one with a presumption of equal/shared parenting for fit parents. If the playing field is equal to start with perhaps a lot of this grief can be resolved, particularly if mediation and counselling are made mandatory before a court appearance. Don't use the old canard of abuse. Both men and women are equally capable of it according to Stats Can and very few situations involve actual abuse.

Sometimes its even manufactured I'm told.MJM






Controversial trend continues because opposing parents lack funds: lawyer

By Heather Capannelli | Publication Date: Monday, 09 November 2009

In another case underscoring the controversy over parental alienation workshops, Justice Thea Herman of the Ontario Superior Court struck down part of an arbitrator’s award earlier this year that would have removed two teenage boys from the custody of their father and sent them to Texas. The decision follows a series of judgments in which Ontario courts have ordered a change in custody and sent the custodial parent along with the children to participate in the workshop.

In S.G.B. v. S.J.L., the court set aside part of an award concluding that the workshop was in the best interest of the boys because the arbitrator relied too heavily on an assessment of them prepared by Richard Warshak, who admitted he hadn’t met them personally.

In his testimony and written evidence, the psychologist and author explicitly declined to make recommendations with respect to the children because he had never observed them before.

Yet the arbitrator ordered that the remedy was “necessary for the children in this case and completely consonant with their best interests.” Herman, however, decided that in making such a finding, the arbitrator’s order amounted to a “fundamental error.”

Another issue arose prior to the hearing when the father asked the arbitrator to order an assessment to determine the appropriateness of the workshop for the children.

The arbitrator declined to do so, instead relying on his own experience as a custody and access assessor. But Herman rebuked that decision, saying “the arbitrator’s experience can only be brought to bear on the evidence. The arbitrator cannot create evidence.”

In addition, Herman said the arbitrator failed to consider the psychological impact the workshop would have on the younger boy. He suffered from Klinefelter syndrome, a genetic disorder that, among other things, caused a language delay.

The facts of the case were as follows. The applicant, the father, and the respondent mother entered into the arbitration to help resolve issues surrounding their two sons L.B. and J.B., aged 17 and 14 respectively. The parents had been divorced since May 1999 and since then, the mother experienced an estranged relationship with both of her children.

After several attempts to resolve disputes about custody, access, and raising the children, both parents agreed to what turned out to be an unsuccessful arbitration in August 2007.

The proceedings were due to continue on Nov. 20, 2007, but the father brought a pre-hearing motion to prevent the arbitrator from making an order that might result in the children leaving the province given that the mother had been in consultation with Warshak for several years despite the fact that he had never met the boys. The motion was denied.

The arbitration took place in February and March 2008 and, based on Warshak’s report that the children were suffering irrational alienation towards their mother, the arbitrator awarded sole custody of both children to her and ordered that they participate in the workshop to help to restore their ties with her.

Logistically, this meant no contact with their father for the three months that the boys were in the program. Once the workshop concluded, communications could resume as long as those in charge authorized them.

The order also allowed the mother to use transporting agents to take her children to the workshop in Texas if they were unwilling to go on their own volition.

“The work of Dr. Warshak has been submitted for peer review so it’s not as controversial as the media hype may lead some to believe,” says Jaret Moldaver, counsel for the mother. “Dr. Warshak has successfully worked with children who have been alienated, and in cases where conventional approaches don’t work, it’s the only viable option to save the child from abuse.”

A larger issue, however, is that often these cases come down to a battle of costly expert evidence, says the father’s counsel, Jan Weir.

“My concern is that in most of these cases, it appears that one parent has the financial means to retain high-end counsel and experts like Dr. Warshak, but the other parent seems to have modest means and never retains an expert, meaning that they can’t lead evidence against the findings or methodology of Dr. Warshak.”

A week at the workshop costs about US$40,000.

According to Warshak, parental alienation syndrome is “a child’s unjustified campaign of denigration against, or rejection of, one parent, due to the influence of the other parent combined with the child’s own contributions.”

It is recognized as a form of emotional abuse that happens when parents get so caught up in their own problems that they lose sight of their children’s needs.

In an interview in 2008 with Maclean’s magazine, Warshak said the workshop “teaches children how to stay out of the middle of adult conflicts and how to maintain a compassionate view toward each parent” and that it helps the child “recapture a major part of his identity.

When the child no longer feels the need to pledge allegiance to one parent by rejecting the other, that’s enormously liberating.”

But Weir says the test in law for admissibility of expert evidence is whether it’s generally accepted by the profession. That’s because courts don’t interpret the evidence of experts on their own. “Is this a method that’s generally accepted by the profession at large?” says Weir.

“This kind of evidence is getting in because the parents who are on the receiving end just don’t have the funds to retain an expert to say that it’s not, that it’s untested.”

http://www.lawtimesnews.com/200911095758/Headline-News/Judge-reverses-parental-alienation-ruling

In the UK ~ Fathers 4 Justice in city centre protest

9:33am Wednesday 4th November 2009

Comments (1) Have your say »

By Andrew Ffrench »

A campaigner for father’s rights has attempted to scale the roof of Oxford Magistrates’ Court.
Roger Crawford, 60, a member of Fathers 4 Justice launched a protest this morning.
Mr Crawford, from Meppershall, in Bedfordshire, was dressed as superman as he attempted to climb the building in St Aldate’s earlier this morning, before being caught by security staff.
It is believed the campaigners have now taken their protest to the street outside.

philg, Oxford says...
2:44pm Wed 4 Nov 09

I thought the crown court was in St Aldate's, and the Magistrates' court in Speedwell Street. The campaigners I saw were certainly outside the Crown Court.

Get the facts straight

I thought the crown court was in St Aldate's, and the Magistrates' court in Speedwell Street. The campaigners I saw were certainly outside the Crown Court. Get the facts straight

Quote » | Report this post »

Mike Murphy, Sault Ste. Marie, ON, Canada says...
5:30am today Thu 5 Nov 09

Roger well done. Its good to see a man closer to my age still spry enough to try and get on roofs as well as have the passion and love for children you do.

Its always a good day when we draw attention to the dysfunction of family courts no matter what court house it is.

http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/headlines/4718843.Fathers_4_Justice_in_city_centre_protest/

University of Alberta - Edmonton ~ Poster campaign about president’s comments causes controversy

November 4, 2009 - 9:29pm

Jonathan Taves, Deputy News Editor

Sam Brooks

PUBLIC ENEMY? Student Derek Warwick faced possible behaviour code charges for his posters.

Comments made recently by University of Alberta President Indira Samarasekera about undergraduate gender imbalance have ignited opposition from a number of students and faculty on campus. Fuel was added to the fire when posters satirizing the remarks put up by a group of students were abruptly taken down, and when the students were informed they could face disciplinary action.

The statements, published in the Edmonton Journal on October 21, indicated Samarasekera’s concerns about a national 58 per cent female undergraduate presence. At the U of A in particular, undergraduate women outnumbered men 14,000 to 11,000 in 2008.

“I’m going to be an advocate for young white men, because I can be. No one is going to question me when I say we have a problem,” Samarasekera said to the Journal.

Also noted was her worry that “we’ll wake up in 20 years and we will not have the benefit of enough male talent at the heads of companies and elsewhere.”

A group of students calling themselves the Samarasekera Response Team put up around 300 posters satirizing the remarks around campus during the night of October 27, only to find almost all of them removed by noon the next day.

“Our intentions were to raise awareness and to foster dialogue through the use of humour,” said Michelle Thomarat, member of the SRT and Political Science master’s student. “We felt like the comments that had been made trivialized the inability of certain demographics to get into university, for example lower-class men and women, and people of colour who do actually face difficulties.”

Some members of the group were soon contacted by Campus Security Services. The students were informed they would be facing charges under section 30.3.4(3) of the Code of Student Behaviour prohibiting “dissemination of malicious material.” However, as of Wednesday evening, CSS said no charges would be laid based on their investigation.

But SRT members said they were puzzled and frustrated that they were even threatened with charges as CSS tried to persuade them to implicate other students involved.

“It’s totally unbelievable,” said Jil Jorgenson, another member of the team and undergraduate in Human Ecology. “I tried to gain more information about why exactly we were being questioned [...] what we were being charged with, and what the concern was with the posters. [CSS] really didn’t give me a clear answer.”

Derek Warwick, an undergraduate in the Women’s Studies program who started the poster campaign, was very surprised by the reaction.

“We all went to CSS under the impression that they just wanted to clear something up. Never would we have guessed that we were facing charges for distribution of malicious material,” he said.

The U of A administration has denied any involvement in the students facing code of behaviour charges, and CSS won’t say who launched the complaints, nor would they provide any additional comments about why the issue warranted their attention.

Both the SRT and CSS say they don’t know who removed the posters.

Numerous faculty members have thrown their support behind the SRT.

“This is an effort to suppress what is legitimate dissent with the president’s published comments on the gender imbalance,” pointed out Lise Gotell, a professor in Women’s Studies. “[That they were facing possible charges] is utterly ridiculous.”

Gotell argued that this addresses a larger issue of campus environment.

“This is a university that supports not only academic freedom, but academic engagement, and to punish students for expressing their opinion is completely unbelievable. We should all be extremely concerned, whether or not we agree with the campaign undertaken by the [SRT],” she said.

Samarasekera was unavailable for an interview, but indicated similar thoughts on the issue in a statement to the U of A community.

“The poster presented [my] comments without the context in which they were made,” she wrote via email. “[However] I personally have no problem with it. Satire is a long-standing and accepted form of social commentary and protest. We in the academy must be very cognizant of respecting each other’s freedom of expression whether we agree with the message or not.”

But apart from determining the legitimacy the posters themselves, the comments which inspired them should continue to be questioned, Gotell said.

“It’s inappropriate for the president of the University of Alberta to declare herself to be an advocate for white men. This is a diverse campus; we have gender and ethnic diversity. These are things we should be celebrating,” she said.

Jorgensen thinks that overall, this controversy indicates the type of student attitude the administration has grown familiar with.

“What were really committed to doing is just exercising engagement in politics and engagement in our community that’s so lacking right now,” she said. “The backlash of the poster shows that. I don’t think the University is used to students caring about things.”

04 Nov22:14

As a "white male" student at

By Dalton (not verified)

As a "white male" student at the U of A I feel it is not at all "inappropriate" for Samarasekera to declare herself my advocate. She should be my advocate as much as for any student and I am thankful for her comments. Everyone faces their challenges, and just in the past men have dominated inappropriately in many fields doesn't mean that tables won't turn. It's clear from these statistics that nowadays the educational system is in some way favoring female students and this must be dealt with. I don't think the reactions to her comments are criminal, but they are inappropriate.

• reply

04 Nov22:16

Don't stand up for those "white males"

By Dalton (not verified)

As a "white male" student at the U of A I feel it is not at all "inappropriate" for Samarasekera to declare herself my advocate. She should be my advocate as much as for any student and I am thankful for her comments. Everyone faces their challenges, and just in the past men have dominated inappropriately in many fields doesn't mean that tables won't turn. It's clear from these statistics that nowadays the educational system is in some way favoring female students and this must be dealt with. I don't think the reactions to her comments are criminal, but they are inappropriate.

• reply

05 Nov00:10

Can someone point out to me

By Steve (not verified)

Can someone point out to me where the President said she would only advocate for white men?
Saying she will advocate for white men does not exclude other groups. The President should be an advocate for all students, including white men.

• reply

05 Nov01:27

Both intelligent

By Ryan H (not verified)

Both intelligent comments.

Some people just need to have an issue, and these people are going to have selective hearing. There are countless injustices in the world, and the president of a university making a very salient point that a lot of people would be too scared to make is not one of them.

I agree with the students who put up the posters that there are other groups far more marginalized than white males when it comes to access to PSE (though the biggest roadblock, economic imperatives, does not know race or gender boundaries and, as such, advocacy should not be based around race, gender, culture, sexual orientation or any other distinguishing factor other than 'student'), but they have chosen to interpret Indira's comments in a way that is unfair to her.

I'm all for lobbying for equal access to PSE, but I can't stand for blatantly using misinformation in an attempt make a point.

Indira's comments were not wrong. It can be argued (and I probably wouldn't argue against this) that she worded her sentiments poorly. However, this does not give you the right to shit on her.

As an open-minded and objective person, I think only two things come out of this — one sad and one ironic.

First, the opportunity to start very legitimate and honest discussion about advocating for equal access to PSE was lost due to an attempt at 'satire.' This is sad. Doubly sad if you consider that this is what some people think of as satire these days. Seriously, not funny at all. Watch some mid '90s Simpsons episodes written by John Swartzwelder or read some Harvey Kurtzman-era MAD Magazine. Goddamn kids these days.

Second, the irony of the situation is that if some right-wing student group twisted an official's words like this to start some campaign to, say, promote scholarships for white males, these "Samarasekera Response Team" people who grossly misused Indira's comments would run around screaming bloody murder. Making a political point like this is a two-way street, pinkos. You're no better than the bat-shit crazy, Fox News conservatives who skew facts and blurt lies to make points. Guess what? They think they're always right just like you think you're always right. Nothing is special about you.

If you want to make a point do it openly, honestly, and don't try to force things on people. No one wants to be told how to think, even if you're dead-set in your belief that you know how they should.

"Speak like an adult, don't stomp your feet like an angry child demanding a KitKat bar and another hour of television."
-JFK or Ghandi or the Pope or someone (probably)

Signed,
Ryan Heise, BA, BJourn,
White Affluent Male With Two Very Expensive Degrees From Two Of The Finest Liberal Arts Schools In This Country (which, trust me, equates to nothing special)

PS - I openly admit that if the posters were actually satirical and funny, I would not have taken the time to write this. That's right: my own personal amusement is more important than any issue could ever possibly be. I guess I'm just a White Affluent Male Narcissist™.

• reply

05 Nov01:47

Rebels without Causes

By Antony Ta (not verified)

Reminds me of a few lines from "Me and Mia," from Ted Leo & The Pharmacists:

"All the bourgeois social angels
Telling you you've got to change
Don't have any idea
They'll never see so clear
But don't forget what it really means to hunger strike
When you don't really need to
Some are dying for the cause, but that don't make it yours"

Not that there's anything wrong with affirmative social action, but some people will always create an issue where there is none, or try to stand up for something for which there is no reason to stand. In the case of Warwick and others, I admire their passion for continued global equality both racial and gender-based, but attacking a public figure like Indira who is actually supporting this type of equality in her interview with the Edmonton Journal is probably the worst way possible to achieve this.

• reply

05 Nov03:23

The so called gender gap is

By Caroline (not verified)

The so called gender gap is not a "time bomb" working its way through the education system as Indira V. Samarasekera was so quoted for many reasons:

1. High school is not giving girls something boys aren't. Mentioned in an article in response to "More women than men making the grade" to not be putting in the same amount of effort into studies (ie/ time spent studying and amount of classes skipped). This is likely due to the fact that they need not rely so heavily on education to still be paid more than a female. Some of this encouragement to study and methods on how to study can be taught within the home where parents can begin to retake some of the responsibility of educating their children.

2. Related to point one: WHITE men with a high school education are still paid more than white females with a high school education and most especially racial minorities of any gender. In order to break even women and racial minorities have no choice but to attend post-secondary.

3. Men still out number women in higher level positions within the job market, so as it stands there is no concern there of women taking over senior positions and the "lack of male talent". If anything there should be a concern still of the lack of women in positions such as these. As someone of Indira status of being both female and a racial minority should understand.

4. Universities are only encouraging enrollment because they are using students merely as a form of capital. Degrees are over priced. There is no need to increase enrollment at all. Especially considering that the job market cannot produce the same number of jobs requiring a relevant degree; therefore, any increase in post-secondary enrollment only compounds the "credentialism paradox" spreading throughout western society.

5. The number of men enrolling has not reduced, it's merely the fact that the number of women and racial minorities enrolling has increased. This point is most likely related to points one and two.

What confuses me is the way this subject is being approached. Why is of women's few positive steps towards equality being perceived as something so negative? The posters were funny in the fact that they portrayed how ridiculous this concern is about the apparent disadvantage of white males in the education system. Middle class boys are at higher risk of behaviour problems in houses where parents are dual earners, but does this mean they are disadvantaged? Not in my books. The only reason this is receiving such focus is the misconception surrounding feminism, which I personally feel should be referred to an anti-sexism. Feminism is not merely about women gaining power it is about a balance and for men to feel so threatened that this becomes a societal issues only proves how disadvantaged women remain in contemporary society.

My overarching point is: why not focus on something that is more important like the mismanagement of 60 billion dollars of the U of A’s budget and finding ways to fund raise so that the president and administrative staff can take the burden of this debt off students who already pay too much?

On a finally note, for the amount I am paying (and which consistently increases each year) I want and deserve my say in any and all subjects concerning the U of A community without the fear of being charged with malicious content.

Sincerely,
Caroline - a female with no choice but to incur thousand dollars of debt in order to obtain a degree that might possibly (but highly unlikely) get her a financially secure career.

• reply

05 Nov03:38

I must revise my first point

By Caroline (not verified)

I must revise my first point as I realized it's late and my editing skills are lack luster at such a time.

1. High school is not giving girls something boys aren't. Mentioned in an article in response to "More women than men making the grade" studies have been shown that men are not putting in the same amount of effort into studies (ie/ time spent studying and amount of classes skipped). This is likely due to the fact that they need not rely so heavily on education to still be paid more than a female. Some of this encouragement to study and methods on how to study can be taught within the home where parents can begin to retake some of the responsibility of educating their children.

One possibility that I have found common to a number of my male friends is that in High School they didn't need to put in the same amount of effort to receive honour grades. I, on the other hand, learned study methods through the simple fact that I needed to revise my work consistently in order to receive the same grades. As a result upon acceptance to post secondary I already had the basic skills to study where as my male counterparts did not and severely suffered because of it.

Another possibility is that females have been shown to be better at writing and communication in general than males. With a post secondary system that is so heavily based on written papers, exams and research (a little less so in sciences than arts, but still a very important factor in any degree) males might face more difficulties than females in this instance. Then again individual characteristics play a large part in such a situation.

• reply

05 Nov03:58

Shoot did I say 60 billion?

By Caroline (not verified)

Shoot did I say 60 billion? Must be thinking of some other deficit. I meant 60 million. Or 59 million if you want to be technical.

• reply

05 Nov09:01

Sexism and disparaging posters

By Mike Murphy (not verified)

The young ideologues who thought they were being smart by disparaging White Men are incredibly shallow and sexist.

Substitute the White Men for Black Men or indeed Women and what would be the reaction. It would appear White Males are the last group to be able to pillory in our society. Every one else is off limits due to the social discourse and mores of the day. The Women's Studies Profs teach this nonsense that White Men oppress women, that they are this nebulous patriarchy it would appear so its OK to denigrate them. Its not OK to be sexist or racist to anyone.

I'm curious though why is it a white male who seems to have taken a lead role in denigrating his gender and race. Is he a self-loathing young man? What kind of job is he hoping to get when he sends out his resume as a graduate of Woman's Studies? If there is indeed a patriarchy of white males ruling the world then he might have a hard time finding employment.

• reply

05 Nov09:18

Caroline needs more info on the gender gap

By Mike Murphy (not verified)

Here is the situation for 2009 grads across the USA. This is not about white men but the difference between genders across all ethnic groups. I can say though the largest cohort on the female side will be white.

Have a peek here and see if this is equal.

Professor Mark Perry’s research at University of Michigan shows the following:

Associate’s degrees: 167 for women for every 100 for men.

Bachelor’s degrees: 142 for women for every 100 for men.

Master’s degrees: 159 for women for every 100 for men.

Professional degrees: 104 for women for every 100 for men.

Doctoral degrees: 107 for women for every 100 for men.

Degrees at all levels: 148 for women for every 100 for men.

That is just the tip of the iceberg. Equality is a two way street but if I were a man I would start taking notice of the clear swing of the pendulum in education and elsewhere. Since 1981 in the USA women have been, on average, earning 135 bachelor degrees to every 100 for men (not just white men by the way)

• reply

05 Nov09:33

Caroline. If I told you how

By Theo (not verified)

Caroline. If I told you how much I thought I'd get and tehn how much I want to sprend - What the University calls a projected budget. I can have a 60 billion dollars - sorry they can have a 60 million dollar deficit. any time they want to.

• reply

05 Nov09:35

Kristallnacht

By Theo (not verified)

The anniversary is Monday. No wonder all those very critical posters had to be taken down by the Security Services

• reply

05 Nov10:52

The SRT are morons...

By Your Name Here (not verified)

The SRT is probably composed of some idiotic feminists who believe women have an unfair position in Canada. Instead of seeing the trend the President of our University is noticing, that white male demographics are decreasing considerably compared to the other OVER-REPRESNTED groups in the university, and that Indira would like to correct this trend BEFORE it becomes an issue in society, they would like to pretend that injustice has occurred and us the white male have yet again found a way to overpower everyone else via out sneaky sneaky methods. My God, females already get a $3000 scholoarship in engineering just for having a vagina and being in "satisfactory" academic standards - which is NOT an accomplishment when there are probably more men (nevermind white) in the faculty, relatively who are doing better or as good. There is no scholarship out there for, strictly white men...unless one attended a KKK meeting I would imagine.

The way we openly give scholarships to lure in females and other ethnicities without even asking their background due to "satisfactory" marks implies that women and other ethnicities are less intelligent that white males. I am sure that skin heads would agree with this level of thinking is retarded. Make everything equal for everyone and these stupid assumptions wouldn't exist..

As a white male, it's about f***ing time that someone else out there is seeing the gender imbalances. We do not need feminists in this country anymore. They have done their job. Seriously, if they have such a problem with female injustice, start with the middle east or even africa where they circumsize females so they can't enjoy sex.

• reply

05 Nov12:01

Mike what you need is a lesson on how the world really works.

By Caroline (not verified)

Oh goodness! Let's run for the hills everybody. On average only 48 more women than men for every 200 people graduating are getting degrees! Shit the women are taking over...

Did you actually bother to read anything I wrote without focusing on the fact that I made a few mistakes in what I was writing but corrected? (And you wonder why some men are having difficulties in school...)

I still revert to my two points that commonly are related to people mistaking and misreading statistics. The context of the "decrease" of male in enrollment is just that male enrollment not increased the same amount as women's has. And why would it increase when men merely need a high school degree to still be financially valued over a woman with a high school degree? Or are more likely to enter into a trade apprenticeship like an intelligent person would here in Alberta and begin to make money immediately rather than sit in school for another 4 years.

Take a load off boys. I still love the opposite sex (gender not included) and feminist women are not attempting to disparage men for things that occurred ages ago. The problem is that those things that occurred ages ago are still so ingrained in the way society works people don't tend to think of them as a problem.

Mike if you really want something to do, look up the "gender gap" in the real world and let me know what you find.

However, the man who is hiding behind his words is one of the reasons feminism and the inequality between genders still exists. Way to go guy, I don't think you did much by being such a coward other than prove my point not yours. You must have missed the point where administration is considering lowering general entry level requirements for males. If this was to occur it would mean that women would have to now be smarter than men in order to get the degree that would help place her in a job where she can hopefully earn just as much or more than a man with a high school degree. Again you are someone who needs a lesson in how the world really works.

While I applaud such a scholarship (in an area still dominating by men) for attempting to break down societal norms I do not believe that the academic standards should be lowered for the women in order to earn it. Perhaps what you should be doing is putting your effort into lobbying for an engineering scholarship for men instead of attempting to take away from what women have earned. (However, I’m sure there are some scholarships for men already out there.)

• reply

05 Nov12:39

Why?

By One (not verified)

Caroline,
Honestly: What is your opinion regarding why women do not get paid equally for their work in employment post-university or even post-highschool?

• reply

05 Nov15:43

The Pay Gap

By Mike Murphy (not verified)

Chew on this for awhile Caroline and do a little research as opposed to the usual feminist mythology you are leisurely bathing in courtesy of your womens Studies Professor. They are famous for providing misinformation, otherwise why would you need a women's Studies program. They have to justify their existence somehow. Do you have a male studies program or discourses in masculinity? Doesn't sound like it. Why not?

Oh yes if you had a gap of 48% on average men getting a degree over women I'm sure you would have more than one childish and petulant poster campaign. Heck you might even engage in civil disobedience. Happy research to find the truth.

THE “PAY GAP”

The “pay gap” is probably the most widely-cited example of supposed disadvantages faced by women today. It is also totally misleading, as it is only a snapshot of average yearly full-time incomes that does not account for overtime (about 90% male), type of work, or other non-discriminatory, voluntary factors. The Department of Labor recently funded a study that proved this and found the pay gap is caused by choices, not discrimination.

http://www.consad.com/content/reports/Gender%20Wage%20Gap%20Final%20Repo...

See also, Prof. June O’Neill, Ph.D. (former director of Congressional Budget Office), “The Gender Gap in Wages, circa 2000,” American Economic Review, 5/03.)

This was further supported in the book “Why Men Earn More" by Warren Farrell, Ph.D., which examined 25 career/life choices men and women make (hours, commute times, etc.) that lead to men earning more and women having more balanced lives, and that showed how men in surveys prioritize money while women prioritize flexibility, shorter hours, shorter commutes, less physical risk and other factors conducive to their choice to be primary parents, an option men still largely don’t have. That is why never-married childless women outearn their male counterparts, and female corporate directors now outearn their male counterparts.

http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSN0752118220071107?feedTy...
Farrell also lists dozens of careers, including fields of science, where women outearn men.

Women simply have more options than men to be primary parents, and many of them exercise that option rather than work long, stressful hours. That is why 57% of female graduates of Stanford and Harvard left the workforce within 15 years of entry into the workforce. http://edition.cnn.com/2005/BUSINESS/03/15/optout.revolution/

This is an option few men have (try being a single male and telling women on the first date that you want to stay home).

Blaming men for women's choices is unfair. In fact research shows most men have no problem with their wives outearning them. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23413243

Research also shows most working dads would quit or take a pay cut to spend more time with kids if their spouses could support the family.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/Careers/06/13/dads.work/index.html

Research also shows that parents share workloads more when mothers allow men to be primary parents.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2009-05-04-equal-parenting_N.htm

For more, see:

ABC News: “Is the Wage Gap Women’s Choice? Research Suggests Career Decisions, Not Sex Bias, Are at Root of Pay Disparity”

* http://abcnews.go.com/2020/GiveMeABreak/story?id=797045&page=1&CMP=OTC-R...

* http://money.cnn.com/2007/06/04/magazines/fortune/muphy_payact.fortune/i...

* http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23413243

• reply

05 Nov16:23

Ontario Teacher Demographics

By Mike Murphy (not verified)

Here is a little more research Ive done for the Province of Ontario in 09 by age cohort. Its worthy of discussion in terms of trends and again it is not new but has been going on for some time.

As a matter of interest currently both the Provincial (Ontario) and Federal Public Service has a 55% female 45% male composition.

Keep in mind my research is on feminism and feminists and is targeted solely at them not women in general. Self proclaimed feminists, especially the 3rd wave variety who believe they are a permanent under class of victims are a very small minority. In addition I lobby politicians on the state of gender politics and these trends. In case someone was going to do the usual, as your chivalrous Derek, I believe, already has in other forums. and call me a misogynist let me disabuse you of that. I love women but I don't suffer foolishness or fools easily.

My crunching covers the current age groups by gender as follows and their dominance.

Total teachers registered in the Province 219,181 - more to come courtesy of McQuinty.

Total Female = 149,636 Male = 59,968 Ratio female to male is 265.50% >female

It gets more interesting when you break them out by age cohort. Watch the trending from young to older

Age 20-30 female 32,421 male 8,012 Female lead by 404.66%

Age 31-40 f - 47,069 m -17,303 Female lead by 272.03%

Age 41-50 f - 36,016 m -15,134 Female lead by 237.98%

Age 51-60 f - 33,707 m -14,116 Female lead by 238.79%

Age 61+ f -10,000 m - 5,403 Female lead by 185.08%

Trending is obvious in that we have far fewer male teachers and accelerating under the McQuinty Liberals. It will be interesting to see what its like under the Tory Stelmach. No doubt the trending will be similar as this flies under the radar of most politicians because there is a male gender gap not female. If it was female the screeching could be heard from Edmonton to Cupid, NFLD.

Why are males not interested in teaching? What impediments are in play through the schooling of boys that causes them to turn away from teaching as men?

Here is possibly one reason and is a true story - " A couple of weeks ago an older girl bullied a 9 year old boy and roughed him up some. He did what we told him was right and he reported the incident to the female principal and female teacher. He was told not to be a sissy, nothing was done.

A few days later he and a male friend were playing a bit rough and all hell broke lose. They were doing nothing wrong just being boys. They are still close friends but don't really understand why they were disciplined and the other incident was ignored. Try and explain to a 9 year old that this is the way it is. How does one explain the statement made, I can do this because I am a girl. What is this teaching young males."

This is not isolated and goes on every day all across this country but in many and various ways.

I haven't yet found the demographics for our other largest tax cost industry of health care but I will source them someday. I will posit I will find a largely female dominated Industry as well with trends of greater domination coming particularly in the higher ranks of Doctors.

Wake up men - you are being feminized and marginalized in many ways and you do not even see it.

http://www.gateway.ualberta.ca/articles/news/2009/11/04/poster-campaign-about-president-s-comments-causes-controversy

After 2 convictions and appeals, woman pleads guilty to second-degree murder in 2002 slaying

I wonder what a man would have gotten. Certainly not two trials and a reduced sentence. Note she has been in jail for 7 years is sentenced to life with a minimum of 10 years parloe eligibility but is getting a parole hearng in 6 months. Men are discounted by the Justice and Family Law system each and every day and special status given to the female.MJM

After 2 convictions and appeals, woman pleads guilty to second-degree murder in 2002 slaying

By Keith Fraser

November 4, 2009 12:02 PM

http://www.theprovince.com/news/After+convictions+appeals+woman+pleads+guilty+second+degree+murder+2002+slaying/2184240/story.html

Darlene Young is led away from the Vernon courthouse in 2002 after being charged

with second-degree murder of her 62-year-old husband Frederick Payton.

Photograph by: Vernon Morning Star, The Province

A Falkland woman who was twice convicted of murdering her husband but won new trials on appeal in each case on Wednesday pleaded guilty to the fatal shooting.

In April 2002 Darlene Alice Young, 46, had been charged with second-degree murder in the slaying of Frederick (Skip) Payton, 62, at their ranch home in the Interior.

Prior to the shooting, Payton had been out drinking with a friend at a local pub.
Young testified that Payton had called her from the pub and threatened to kill her. She drove to the ranch and when her husband arrived home, she shot him at point-blank range with a shotgun.

The case went to trial in 2003, and ended with a conviction. On appeal a new trial was ordered and in 2005 she was convicted again, with the defence arguing that she was a victim of battered-woman syndrome. In October 2008, the B.C. Court of Appeal ordered a third trial, which was scheduled to get under way in January.

But the prosecutors and the defence reached an agreement to have her plead guilty to second-degree murder and receive the mandatory life sentence with the minimum of 10 years of parole ineligibility. She had received a life sentence with no parole for 15 years after the second conviction.

“I’ve spoken to the victim’s family members and they are of a mind that this matter should come to an end,” Crown counsel Lorne Fisher told B.C. Supreme Court Associate Chief Justice Patrick Dohm during a short hearing in Vancouver.

“They are pleased about the outcome. They were concerned about a third trial.”
Kevin McCullough, Young’s lawyer, told the judge that his client is sorry for what she did and has taken steps toward rehabilitation while in prison, with her becoming involved in an animal program.

He said it was clear her guilty plea at this time was “meaningful” given the prolonged history to the case.
The defence lawyer asked the judge for a recommendation that his client remain in minimum security, where she has received escorted temporary absences.

The judge agreed with Fisher’s and McCullough’s submissions and imposed the mandatory life prison sentence with the minimum of no parole for 10 years.

“It seems to me that you have made great progress in your own rehabilitation,” noted the judge. “Let me say that I wish you well.”

Young, who has remained in custody for more than seven years, is expected to have a parole hearing within six months.
The accused, wearing a black jacket and blue jeans, sat quietly in the prisoner’s dock, using a Kleenex to wipe away some tears at one point.

In addition to the sentence, the judge imposed a lifetime firearms ban and was ordered to provide a DNA sample.

kfraser@theprovince.com